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A True Debate re: Tucker Max

Okay, so yesterday morning I received an email from what appeared to be a very upset reader who’d found our article via a search engine one day when he was researching Tucker Max.  This was the first negative comment I’d received on our blog.  Not only did we get a comment email, we also got a follow up email, wondering why the comment hadn’t been approved for posting yet.  I was so taken back at the passion the reader portrayed, I wondered for a second if he was actually from the Tucker Max camp. Anyone who knows me knows I LOVE a good debate, especially with someone intelligent and full of spunk and life who actually wants to change my line of thinking.  Through several emails, I found out he is a 21-year-old college student who has a very interesting yet true view on the article I wrote.  I think it’s so important to know that comments, good or bad, are so important to Leah and I.  We take each one seriously, no matter whether you agree with us or not.  My article, in case you didn’t read it is here: http://mommiesneedsleeptoo.blogspot.com/2012/03/who-is-tucker-max.html


His comment below:
It is immensely evident that you have done absolutely zero research on Tucker Max. First, I will give you the fact that the man has treated women poorly. However, he openly acknowledges it. In fact, a better question is simply why do women let this happen? As far as “raising your daughter to be smarter than losers like Tucker,” the man graduated from Duke Law School with a JD and continued in the University of Chicago, a notoriously rigorous academic school. Intelligence-wise, Tucker is quite gifted. As far as a “loser”, the man has sold millions of books, written 4 books, created a movie, and invented a new literary genre. Second, I think you are trying to push YOUR idea of what a guy is supposed to do. There are females out there who prefer beer and potato chips to wine and caviar. Third, if you read between the lines even a little bit, there are some things that you can teach your daughter that Tucker Max has taught many: Be honest. If you read, you will never see him conceal his want to have sex with girls. I believe you’d agree that is far better than manipulation and pretending to care about someone he doesn’t. This cuts out the middle, and if the girl isn’t interested, he leaves. Simple. They both move on.  Be fearless. The man wasn’t afraid to do whatever he wanted. He got out of the law world and decided to write, sometimes being so poor he had to borrow food just to eat. Do what you love. This is self-evident as he has stately outwardly he loathes law school. Surely, these three characteristics, fearlessness, honesty,  the ability to do what you love, and others such as intelligence, are characteristics you would want your daughter to emulate. Finally, as far as him treating women poorly. You explain that real men wouldn’t do this. However, you clearly mean YOUR version of a man wouldn’t do this. In fact, he highlights the way women get treated in a quote from I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell:
“Ladies, let me give you some advice. You can throw all your stupid fucking chick-lit, self-help, why-doesn’t-he-love-me books out, because this is all you need to know: Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as “deserving” respect; you get what you demand from people.. if you demand respect, he will either respect you or he won’t associate with you. It really is that simple.”  
You call him a loser, you state his inadequacies, you state he longs for a beautiful woman, and try to cite your months of research, but you provide no links where you prove this. If you like, I’ll gladly find passages to back up any statement I have made in this comment. 



Naturally, this got me fired up.  Below is my response:

First of all, let us thank you for taking the time to come and read our blog.  I’m assuming by your comments that you are not a father, and obviously not a mother – which is our target audience so it’s cool to hear.  It’s also awesome that my article moved you enough to write such a lengthy comment, and then come back to check to see if it’s posted.
I am the one who wrote the article.  I wrote the article from a mother’s perspective and again – given some of your comments, I’m going to assume that you aren’t a parent….which of course completely changes your views on things.  This is okay.  I did make poke fun at guys like you, who very apparently idolize someone such as Tucker Max.  I feel anyone who treats women poorly such as he does is a jerk, period.  Because this is a country where we have the freedom to say what we like- I said so in my article and enjoyed every minute of it.
Leah and I will discuss posting your comment, and my response to it.  (I just viewed it this morning.  Please understand we are both full time working mommies and do more than operate a blog) The reason we have a moderator view it is because people get crazy and post things that we don’t want reflected on our site.  It has nothing to do with being in control, we are in control simply be being able to write what we do.  We LOVE comments, good or bad.  It’s interaction on our site, which is what we want. 
As for Tucker Max, please don’t mistake education for intellegence, which happens so often in today’s society. A publishing company saw $$ and published his – in my opinion, which I am entitled to – below average trash because they knew (guys like you) would buy it.  Yes, he’s made a ton of money.  Does that make him a great guy?  No!  Think about all the loaded assholes in today’s society, come on, I know you can think of a few, that have made money off of America’s ignorance.
I’m always up for a debate.  However, it seems you and I simply have a difference in opinion here – which is quite okay.  I don’t need to “prove” or provide links behind my opinion to Tucker Max.  It’s my opinion, and I’m free to share it with the world.  I already formed one of you, due to some of you comments.  Just as I said earlier, I’m picturing you being the guy I poked fun at, the guy who idolizes Tucker Max for being the dirt bag he is, because he’s everything you want to be.  If I’m wrong, I apologize, but I think that’s why you are so worked up.  I called out every man who thinks it’s okay to treat women like shit (and women too for falling for it!).  You can call me out for being a modern day feminist who targets men.  That’s okay!  
Out of all the comments, I truly agree with one part:   “Ladies, let me give you some advice. You can throw all your stupid fucking chick-lit, self-help, why-doesn’t-he-love-me books out, because this is all you need to know: Men will treat you the way you let them. There is no such thing as “deserving” respect; you get what you demand from people.. if you demand respect, he will either respect you or he won’t associate with you. It really is that simple.”   That is correct.  I think that women will get what they ask for, which is WHY I wanted to write this article.  Demand more ladies, and show your daughters to do the same. 
Also – you made a comment that some women prefer beer & potato chips.  If you read me article closely – I said: whether you want beer or potato chips (which honestly, I prefer over caviar) or wine & caviar…don’t go for the bottom feeders such as Tucker. 
Again, thanks for writing, and reading.

Then, I got the following email, which entirely changed the game.  You see my friends, a true debate is one in which each party voices their opinion – and each LISTENS to the other with open ears, no matter how heated it gets.  They take it as a learning experience, not an insult to their intelligence.  If you are too wrapped up in yourself or your own insecurities, you can’t see what the other person could possibly be trying to tell you; or if they are right.  See his response below, I highlighted the points that made me really stop and think…

First, I am responding through e-mail because it is far quicker and easier for me to respond to everything written. If my comment is indeed published, I’ll gladly copy and paste everything from this email verbatim into a comment and send it. You’re very welcome for the time given to come and read the blog. I would like to begin by apologizing if my original commented seemed heated, or motivated outside anything other than general curiosity. I am indeed not a father, and I understand that I am not your target audience. So, my perspective is a little different than the perspective you and Leah bring to the table. First, I would like to correct the assumption that I “idolize” Tucker Max. Truthfully, I really don’t. I found him interesting, and, when I find someone interesting, I try to find out a lot of information about him/her. I’m sure you both have someone that you have done a lot of research on because they interested you. Second, you have stated that you are lumping me into the category that you feel most of his legions of fans fall under, which is an unfortunate assumption to make. It’s very interesting to pass judgment on someone who read a book and enjoyed it. I think it’d be a little fairer to simply just try to understand what was taken from the book. I will gladly grant you that fact that you will find instances where he is absolutely mean to women at times. Sure, he has a made some incredibly rude remarks when drunk (some when not), but there are definitely times when he is treating a women, not only the way she demands, but in the way she deserves based upon her actions. I think we could agree that in that book (and the other 3 of you happen to read them in the future) some of the girls definitely deserved what they got.  However, you wrote this blog and, I assume read his first book incredibly recently. Please, keep in perspective that this is a man who wrote these stories in his twenties. Of course, they were wild and crazy. Of course, he did and said things he didn’t, but I’m sure we can make that case for everyone in some form or another. Now, please follow me with this: We’ve established he can be a jerk. I’m sure you are going to teach your daughter to avoid jerks. However, wouldn’t it be helpful to possibly understand WHY someone is being a jerk? So, maybe when your daughter runs into one, she stops and goes “Hey! There may be more at work here that dictates why a person is treating people so poorly.” It may be my male opinion, but knowing why men treat women the way they do may make it much easier for your daughter to deal with it when it happens to her. If you agree with this, allow me to post this excerpt to an article about Tucker Max. Maybe, this will shed some light and show he may not quite be the dirtbag he was in his twenties:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2012/01/18/tucker-max-gives-up-the-game/2/ 

I understand completely if you disregard the link I sent. I just am hoping you’ll understand that people change, and, while you read a bunch of stories about him in his twenties, that it doesn’t necessarily paint the whole picture.  Look, as a mom, your first and foremost job is to protect your daughter. If the twenty-year-old Tucker Max was sitting on your living room couch, you would probably have a few choice words for him based on how he treats women. To me, it’s more important to understand that people may act of a certain way because of deeper problems. In Tucker’s case (if you didn’t read the article), his twenty-year-old personality points to his childhood, his pity, self-destruction, and self-loathing. Sure, he is a jerk, but if these are the type of things he is wrestling with, is it hard to understand why? We all have an instance where we take someone who is not favored by most and befriend them. Sometimes, that’s the best friend we ever make. It takes a lot of trying to see past a person’s outward personality, but, if you do get past it, you may end up changing their life. And, once we get past it, I think you’ll agree, it puts that persons actions in a much different perspective. The thought processes goes “What a jerk!” to “Now, it makes sense as to where all of this is coming from.. How can I help it?” Now, that may not be the exact scenario for Tucker, but it’s certainly one that you, your daughter, your blog partner, and myself can embrace. I apologize for the incredibly long e-mail. I apologize for the impatience, and starting off on the wrong foot, but I am very much enjoying the discussion we are having. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to read and respond. Have a wonderful day.

To skip the next string of emails, I will tell you I apologized to Zack, the writer.  I told him I was sorry for lumping him with some of Tucker’s crazed male fans.  I read the link he suggested and saw where I had actually been correct in assuming that Tucker lashed out at women because of insecurities from some issues from his childhood.  I agreed with Zack that the women Tucker Max targeted were indeed asking for what they got, and that’s why I wrote the article in the first place.  While I may have emasculated Tucker Max in my article, that wasn’t my true intent.  My true intent was to send a message to women: get your act together ladies! Otherwise, what more can we expect from our own little boys?  From our girls?  I want to thank Zack for not only reading our blog, but making my day by interacting with me and letting me know his point of view in a manner that could actually help me learn and grow.  I now see the situation with a new light.  His last comment in an email was this: Truth is, problems are like a plant. You can trim away the visible parts all that you want, but, until
you dig out the root, it will keep coming back.  How true is that? 

And this my friends is what I consider a true debate! Thanks Zack!!!!!!





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